Neteller Facts

[sd2]

Some of these possibly have been posted before, but factual redundancies are not necessarily negative.

Neteller is located on the Isle of Man, technically independent, but a British dependency. It makes it own domestic law, but subject to the Brit parliament. (IE, they presumbly cannot made a law contravening the civil rights enjoyed by citizens of the UK, like the prohibition of speech, etc)

The UK is solely responisble for the military defense of the Isle. Likewise, British financial institutions regulate international commerce of the 32 mile long island (pop about 80,000, and bilingual, English and Manx).

Isle of Man has no corporate taxes.

Neteller has (or had) around three and a half million subscribers. It seems that approximately 73% of these are (were) in the United States.

It could likely be guessed that of this 73%, around 70% use NT mainly for transactions with gambling sites. This is my estimate, not Neteller's or anyone else's.

With the US cutoff, NT is apparently down to around a million subscribers to its financial transmission services.

NT has publicly assured regulatory bodies in the UK that funds held by them from US citizens are secure, and will be paid.

 

[Moneyneversleeps]

What are they waiting for then? Why won't they pay?

 

[TheBigFish]

I like the idea of a thread with just facts about Neteller. In spirit of such an endeavor, there is a rumor/assumption that I've been reading around here, which I do not think is valid. THe rumor: that the DOJ (or other US authority) has somehow siezed bank accounts in which Neteller holds US players' funds. I doubt this is true. If it were, such a siezure would have been made pursuant to an order by a U.S. federal court, and I'm sure we would have seen it by now (in a news article or elsewhere). I've read this rumor over and over, and it just doesn't make any sense unless there has been an order issued of which I'm not aware. THe DOJ can't just freeze someone's assets absent judicial process.

 

[sean1]

I believe the DOJ or whoever does the seizing can seize funds in situations of national security without a court order.

If Bin Laden wires money to someone here, the things in place to seize it don't require a court order (May require one to keep it)

Still it is very doubtful the DOJ has seized Netellers' dangerous funds.

Much much more likely is they can not find a bank to do the transactions.

-Sean

 

[sd2]

What are they waiting for then? Why won't they pay?

Good question.

They actually suspended all transmissions of funds from US clients to offshore wagering sites on Jan 19th.

I believe it normally took around 2-3 days for an EFT to reach a member's bank account. (I don't know about paper checks, as I never received one from them, but logically that would take longer.)

Let's assume three days for an EFT to be processed. If you got the withdraw request in by the 15th you may have been paid already. I know that someone here reported that they made their request on the 13th and have been paid.

If you made your request on the 16th, or certainly on the 17th or 18th, you are likely to have gotten caught in the "suspend" net, and your withdrawal is "pending."

Yes, I know that that Jan 19th date was supposed to be only for transmissions to wagering sites.

And that is wherein lies the gap in our knowledge.

I suspect all transmissions to US citizens were suspended (hopefully temporarily) pending further developments in the case of the two ex-execs of NT. But I don't know, it is merely a guess.

We are waiting for a reliable poster (at least 100 posts, or othewise known to mods or other regulars here) to assure us he has received an EFT or paper check from NT, to a US destination, after requesing same after, say, the 17th or the 18th.

There seems no question that the Bush DOJ is making a major effort to cut commerce between the MAJOR offshore sites (Pinnacle - we still do not know the full story there - and Neteller; and who's next?)

They seem to be using loosely worded laws re money-laundering to do so.

The DoJ is keeping mum re the cases of the two busted ex NT execs. But almost certainly they will ring up the major scare word our times, "terrorism," to re-inforce their case.

Osama has a bet on the coin toss in the Super Bowl.

 

[sd2]

Osama has a bet on the coin toss in the Super Bowl.

Reliable sources tell me he's got 5 mil riding on "tails."

He doesn't get much of that anymore up there in the Paki mountains.

 

[sd2]

I like the idea of a thread with just facts about Neteller. In spirit of such an endeavor, there is a rumor/assumption that I've been reading around here, which I do not think is valid. THe rumor: that the DOJ (or other US authority) has somehow siezed bank accounts in which Neteller holds US players' funds. I doubt this is true. If it were, such a siezure would have been made pursuant to an order by a U.S. federal court, and I'm sure we would have seen it by now (in a news article or elsewhere). I've read this rumor over and over, and it just doesn't make any sense unless there has been an order issued of which I'm not aware. THe DOJ can't just freeze someone's assets absent judicial process.

I agree.

Rx is basically an entertainment site, and rumors are high entertainment. Just check out all the celebrity gossip shows and magazines.

I've engaged in the speculation myself here, and in fact did put some speculation - calculation - in my report, shown above. But I am careful to label it as such. Mere guesses.

 

[sd2]

An assumption that I had was wrong - see also my thread on the Motley Fool's December boost of Neteller stock.

NT is a public company, trading on London's AIM market (yes,the same market the BoS was trading on.)

I know they voluntarily halted trading on that market - on Jan 16 - when their ex-execs were busted in the US, but they are a regulated entity. How regulations differs in the UK from here in the US I don't know.

And I don't know if they have re-instated trading. Last closing price was 176 British pound sterling (I think that's what the symbols mean).

This sounds high. Really high. I think the pound it worth about a buck seventy five for each dollar, which would make this share price, what? about $250? Naw, can't be.

Being publicly owned, they do have a listed Board of Directors. One Gordon Herman is the Executive Chairman, which is probably the same as Board Chairman.

Ron Martin is the President and CEO.

Hey, yo, Ronny! When we gettin' our bucks? We'll even take payment in pound sterling.

What's that you say, chappie? The checks in the mail? OK great.

(Do hope this bloke, Ronny, is an honest man, you know, old school chum. And Ron, I swear that my ancestors didn't kill one British soldier, not a one. Hones'!)

 

[Woody0]

And I don't know if they have re-instated trading. Last closing price was 176 British pound sterling (I think that's what the symbols mean).

I believe trading has not been re-instated and the 176 is pence or 1.76 pounds sterling.

My speculation is that something seems to have happened involving the US banking industry and I wonder if UIGEA draft regulations have been circulated to banks for comment. That could explain the withdrawal of Pinny on 01/11/07 and of NETeller on 01/19/07, with the arrest of their founders being merely coincidental. Maybe a mod could enquire at a book management level, if and what any banking issue might be.

 

[sd2]

I believe trading has not been re-instated and the 176 is pence or 1.76 pounds sterling.

My speculation is that something seems to have happened involving the US banking industry and I wonder if UIGEA draft regulations have been circulated to banks for comment. That could explain the withdrawal of Pinny on 01/11/07 and of NETeller on 01/19/07, with the arrest of their founders being merely coincidental. Maybe a mod could enquire at a book management level, if and what any banking issue might be.

I think this is feasible. NT can't find a bank to process, due to DoJ pressure on same. Doesn't seem to explain why checks are also not being sent.

Rx wants no involvement in the matter on any action basis, and that is likely the intelligent course for them to follow. It's up to each to develop his or her own strategy.

And you thought the Wild West was a thing of the past!

 

[TheKinz]

Good question.

They actually suspended all transmissions of funds from US clients to offshore wagering sites on Jan 19th.

I believe it normally took around 2-3 days for an EFT to reach a member's bank account. (I don't know about paper checks, as I never received one from them, but logically that would take longer.)

Let's assume three days for an EFT to be processed. If you got the withdraw request in by the 15th you may have been paid already. I know that someone here reported that they made their request on the 13th and have been paid.

If you made your request on the 16th, or certainly on the 17th or 18th, you are likely to have gotten caught in the "suspend" net, and your withdrawal is "pending."

Yes, I know that that Jan 19th date was supposed to be only for transmissions to wagering sites.

And that is wherein lies the gap in our knowledge.

I suspect all transmissions to US citizens were suspended (hopefully temporarily) pending further developments in the case of the two ex-execs of NT. But I don't know, it is merely a guess.

We are waiting for a reliable poster (at least 100 posts, or othewise known to mods or other regulars here) to assure us he has received an EFT or paper check from NT, to a US destination, after requesing same after, say, the 17th or the 18th.

There seems no question that the Bush DOJ is making a major effort to cut commerce between the MAJOR offshore sites (Pinnacle - we still do not know the full story there - and Neteller; and who's next?)

They seem to be using loosely worded laws re money-laundering to do so.

The DoJ is keeping mum re the cases of the two busted ex NT execs. But almost certainly they will ring up the major scare word our times, "terrorism," to re-inforce their case.
_________________________________________________________

Then this is what happened to me but the opposite. I posted the "hilarious" thread. I had two neteller insta cash deposits on jan 18 and jan 19. Both went through to my site but neteller only got paid on the first one. Now they are after the balance that they did not get..makes sense and this is MUCH bigger than we all think

 

[sd2]

From the Neteller Website

In line with the Group's standard business practices for all customers, the funds of US resident customers are held in segregated trust accounts and are fully secure and will be available for withdrawal by customers, on demand. The ability to withdraw funds will exist regardless of the customer's location or ability to transfer to any site. All US resident customers will continue to be able to use their NETELLER e-wallet accounts to safely transfer funds to and from non-gambling merchants and are not required to close their accounts or withdraw their funds.

The above is posted on NT's site. Is this correct- you can use e-wallet to transfer to a bank? Or do they mean strictly to merchants, in the traditional sense?

 

[sd2]

This is NOT Good Reportage for Gambling 911

Up to 8 weeks is how long NETeller says it may take money transfers to and from the United States. The third party payment firm claims there are no ways to get this money to players living in the States -Christopher Costigan, Gambling 911

Someone on another thread said that G911 is posting the best reports about the Neteller situation. Huh?

The above is how Costigan leads off today's report on the NT situation.

Read the paragraph again. First, he states it may take up to 8 weeks to get an EFT. (This is NT's "official" position.) Then he immediately writes that NF "claims there are no ways to get this money to players lving in the States."

Now, Chris, where did you get this last piece of information from - which directly contradicts the first sentence? From an NT exec? - doubtful, you seem to be quoting several news stories.

Is this is the "best" reportage coming out of the NT fiasco, we are truly hurtling over Niagara in a barrel. Adrift in the Bermuda Triangle in a leaky rowboat. In the jungle facing a huge pot and a hundred hungry natives with salt shakers.

Anyone who chooses may add to the analogies.